Legal threat from Realistix Solutions

Today, we want to tell you the story of a consumer who is being threatening legal action by Realistix Solutions.

He urged consumers not to be put off by any legal threat. Please, read it:

 —–Original Message—–
From: Intelligent Software Solutions SL <support@iss-europe.com>
To: a “non-manipulated consumer”
Sent: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 20:52
Subject: RECEIPT ISSSL – OUTSTANDING BALANCE
Dear Mr. “non-manipulated consumer”
 
Since we have not heard from you solicitors nor yourself since the 16/09/13 I have been asked to contact you once more with reference to the outstanding payment for the above mentioned purchase that you signed on the 27th August 2013 and of which we should have received payment by now as it is well over due. 
 
Please find attached our legal standings of the terms and conditions which you signed with the receipt when you purchased the software which will also be posted to you this week.
 
The outstanding balance today 06/10/13 is £5,000.00 if we have not had a response to this letter or the full payment within the next 15 days; I have been instructed to forward your file to our UK Debt Collection Department.
 
Please arrange for the payment to be transferred to the following account as soon as possible:
BANK: SANTANDER
BANK ADDRESS: SAN EUGENIO – ADEJE – SANTA CRUZ DE TENERIFE
BENEFICARY: INTELLIGENT SOFTWARE SOLUTIONS SL
IBAN: ES34 0049 5856 2326 1603 1646
SWIFT/BIC CODE: BSCHESMMXXX
REFERENCE ON THE PAYMENTS – RECEIPT ISSSL
 
Once you have made the transfer, please send a copy to our email address above so that we can credit to your outstanding balance without delay.
 
We would like to resolve this matter in a professional and amicably matter and therefore look forward to your payment proposal before 21/10/2013 when we will have no other option but to pass this onto the UK Department.
 
Should we have to pass your file to the UK Collection Department please be advised that they will pursue you through the courts and they will list you with Experion and any other Credit Check Company as a bad debtor, this will unfortunately affect any future credit rating resulting in you having difficulty insuring finance for whatever reason.   
 
Thank you for your co-operation in this matter and we look forward to receiving your comments.
 
Kind regards
 
Nancy
Legal Department
___________________________________________________
Intelligent Software Solutions SL – ‘Independent Distributors’
 
Apartado de Correos 165,
Adeje, 38678, 
Santa Cruz De
Tenerife, Spain 
Tel:  Tenerife: (0034)673407470 
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Re: RECEIPT ISSSL- OUTSTANDING BALANCE
From: the “non-manipulated consumer”
Date: Thu, October 17, 2013 12:19 pm
To: support@iss-europe.com

Dear sirs, In reply to your letter received both through the post and by email below. As mentioned previously in correspondence and on telephone calls I do not take kindly to threats, but I intend to reply once and for all to clarify our position.
      As stated in section 2.1 we did not freely chose to purchase the product. We were lured to your office under the pretence we had won a prize from a free scratch card on the streets of Las Americas. On hindsight this was done very swiftly to prevent passers bye making us aware of these type of illegal  scams which have since found out have  been going on for years. We were then submitted to 4/5 hours of very careful manipulation, deceit and finally, pressurised threats to sign up for a product of which I have told you we did not need or want. All as describe in the email sent to yourselves on 6/9/13 cancelling our agreement, as I am allowed to do so under the 14 day cooling off period, which is required under both Spanish and British law.
     2.1 – off your letter stated we were shown the product – The person who showed us the product could not work a computer, but managed to show us a still frame of holidays and prices. And was not clear on describing how it works. Two other staff in the office also” tried” to show us how it worked, which I will cover later under the refund section of your letter The main appeal to us was the holidays promised to us in the Maldives, an American cruise and stay and a 2 week European break ( none of which is mentioned in your  “legal letter”), when adding up the potential  costs of purchasing them made it feel a good deal . Which on weighing it up were the main reason we signed up. But when reading the small print were not what we were told we would get, such as having to organise our own flights ETC
       3.1- Product information – As described in section 2.1 our “salesman ” was in-capable of telling us how the product worked. And we were never asked to confirm this was fully explained to us, although I don’t doubt it will appear somewhere on the paperwork I was asked to sign after 4/5 hours of pressure by your staff. 
        Regarding your statement of agreement about ” sales of long term holiday products” and not entering any service agreement- how do you explain the holiday vouchers, as described in section 2.1.
        Regarding the shrink wrapped section – When I have previously asked for a refund I was told I was not entitled to get one under Spanish law -” no cooling off period”. Now you state I am if I return the item un-opened. This, as you now, is totally impossible as you insisted I opened it and put it in the computer to be shown how to work. When it was put in the computer, you were reluctant to show me how it worked and refused to touch the computer, even when I explained I could not understand the Spanish writing / symbols on the computer. A male employee then appeared only to pretend he could not get it to work either, although he was clearly witnessed working a computer earlier in the day. So please explain how it is possible for me to do as you request on attached letter.
       I stand by all statements in previous correspondence. I hope this concludes this sorry affair once and for all.  
                                                                                 Regards.  The “non-manipulated consumer”
 
—–Original Message—–
From: Intelligent Software Solutions SL <support@iss-europe.com>
To: “A non-manipulated consumer”
Sent: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:38
Subject: RE: RECEIPT ISSSL – OUTSTANDING BALANCE
Dear Mr. “non-manipulated consumer”
 
Thank you for your email. We do not consider any of our correspondence with you a threat in anyway. We are trying to make you understand and when you signed the receipt of purchase of the software, this was a legally binding receipt of compromise between both parties, you read and signed all the terms and conditions of the purchase of the tangible good which cannot be returned nor is there any cancellation right.
 
You are suppose to send us the transfer of the outstanding balance today and as we know this transaction can more than 72 hours to clear we will wait until Friday to see if the payment comes into our account, if not unfortunately your file will be passed to our UK Debt Collection Department and you will have to deal directly with them.
 
Once again we wish to remind you that Realistix do not have anything to say in this matter until you have finished the payment and your software is activated as you have signed the legally binding receipt with our company who are Licensed Vendors of the software.
 
As for your comments to Mindtimeshare yes of course they will post all the negative comments, try posting something positive and you will last at the most 10 minutes.
 
Kind regards
____________________________________________________
Intelligent Software Solutions SL – ‘Independent Distributors’
Apartado de Correos 165,
Adeje, 38670, 
Santa Cruz De Tenerife,
Canary Islands – Spain 
____________________________________________________
To be continued ….

Note.-

Realistix Solutions –https://mindtimeshare.me/?s=realistix+ – uses OPCs, and the staff behind the marketing of Realistix Browser Suite, promise to their customers that this software product would open to them the door to all RCI resorts, and to discount prices of many hotels, and villas over the world. They were even shown in a computer some villas, hotels and RCI resorts where they could stay if they bought this product. The software DVD Disc last 5 years or unlimited, and could be used in four computers. RCI does not have any business agreement with Realistix, so all claims that RCI is somehow backing up this product are completely false! 

People behind the marketing of the Realistix Browser Suite Software DVD Disc are promising to timeshare owners that if they buy this costly Software Disc, they will take their timeshares from them, liberating them of future maintenance fees payments. 

About mindtimeshare

Mindtimeshare SLU is registered Company reg number: B35957182 Mindtimeshare provides assistance to timeshare owners who have been defrauded by holiday clubs and bogus resale companies. The Mindtimeshare project was launched in February 2011. After dealing with timeshare members over several years who had been defrauded by numerous bogus companies and for large amounts of money, I considered launching an Organisation to help timeshare owners that have been targeted by bogus companies. On this blog you can find information about the different active scam companies and their “modus operandi” and also place comments, ask questions and see comments from other consumers who have the same doubts or have been through the same experience. Mindtimeshare has resulted in a huge success and has received the back up from not only timeshare consumers but also from the professionals in the timeshare Industry. Mindtimeshare helps timeshare owners who have been scammed by bogus Discount Holiday Clubs; bogus cash back companies; fraudulent timeshare resale companies; bogus class action companies and false lawyers and notaries. We offer professional answers and advice to Timeshare users. If you want to send an email instead of posting a comment on the blog please do so by emailing: customercare@mindtimeshare.com
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26 Responses to Legal threat from Realistix Solutions

  1. Beryl says:

    We were in Adeje for my birthday, we were stopped by people with scratch cards, we had a “winning ” ticket, went for the presentation 4/5 hours later we liked the idea of cheap holidays, as we don’t earn a great deal we opted for a credit check, which we failed, on the understanding that if we failed we could return the package and get a refund on the £100 deposit paid. After 3 phone calls to them 2 offering us payments we can not afford, and 1 where i asked about cancelling the agreement and for a refund, and to send to package back, which is still unopened. We recieved an e.mail from ISS threating litigation, giving us 14 days to reply, I recieved a letter from Lex Senior Lawers saying we are in default and have given us 10 days to pay, £4,850. we are not sure what the next step is, can any help us.

  2. lynn says:

    Hi,
    I have been xxxxxx by realistix solutions in tenerife, into buying their product, it’s not all they promised it would be. I have read how you helped others get a refund and I would really like your advice on how I can pursue the same action.
    Thank you

    • Mary says:

      RE-; REALISTIX
      I know this a little long and drawn out, but the result is worth the read!

      We were approached on our way to the beach in Tenerife, by people whom I assume had seen us coming out of the resort and were interested in speaking to us as they knew we were probably Diamond Resort members. Once they confirmed this and in spite of us
      assuring that we were actually quite happy with the membership, they gave us a shock by telling us about the fact we would be stuck with the membership for life and beyond.
      This story they tell people about the membership being in perpetuity and children inheriting the debts on a membership, and of course we never actually spoke to our company about this, we had no idea that these are all lies.
      They took us to their offices where we received even more pressure and stress full stories, backed up with apparent paperwork from supposed other Diamond owners who “luckily” were helped out by Realistix. They told us that if we were to try to relinquish our DR points ourselves it would cost us in excess of £30,000 (without a guaranteed result), a great deal of time and we would still have to pay our yearly management fees.
      After 4 hours, which is a very long time for a meeting to stay focused and be able to think clear, we agreed to sign for the services of ISS to act on our behalf in relinquishing us of our DR points. In exchange they gave us the Realistix Browser and they were going to take over of our Diamond Membership, we paid over £9000 for this service. Realistix Solutions gave us the software and they told us that it would give us discounted holidays at reduced prices. In order to do this they would convert our DR point into timeshare weeks which would enable the company to utilise our points that they would now own. When we actually get it to work there are no such things as reduced prices and most probably you will find better offers straight from retailers on the internet.
      We went through a long lasting pressure sales presentation where although we had certain doubts, we ended up signing the paperwork.
      The main reason for signing was the fact that they explained to us about the perpetuity of the membership, and that our children would be liable for the management fees upon our death and that they were going to “fight” for us in court to get the membership cancelled.
      I now know that these are all lies and as a matter of fact we ended up cancelling the membership ourselves directly with Diamond, based on a health indication from the GP, which is an acceptable reason from Diamond to relinquish a membership with no costs at all. Everything they told us was based on lies, and although the membership has been cancelled, this was not due to their expertise or services! This was done by us and there would have been no need to pay 9 thousand pounds!

      Upon our return to the UK we were contacted by a man alleging to be part of the legal team who told us to get a letter from our GP stating that my husband could no longer holiday due to his severe arthritis. This man,——- ——-, insisted that I didn’t reveal his name or the company he worked for to Diamond Resorts. I got a letter from the GP at a cost of £55 and forwarded this directly to Diamond who told us our points could be handed back. At no point did the company “act on our behalf” or free us from any obligation, we did that ourselves!
      So, now we’re left with no DR points and £9,000 poorer!
      Upon closer inspection of the contract that we signed on I realise that nowhere in the small print does it state that we were paying this money for the company to legally fight (their words) DR in order to be relinquished of our timeshare points. What the contract does state is that we “purchased” the Realistix Browser. This was not our intention, and in fact, the company stated that this was given in exchange for our DR points. One particular signed paper stated that we had broken the seal on the CD through our own free will. NOT THE CASE!! We were told that in order to make sure that there was a CD inside we needed to break the seal to take out the CD from the sealed container. We didn’t feel this was a problem as were really were not interested in having this CD, we simply wanted to “get out” of our timeshare points with DR.
      During our time in the office we were given examples of people whom they had helped and even gave us 2 telephone numbers of people with whom we could speak (one was supposed to be a man of the cloth) in order to allay our fears about the company. We duly contacted them upon our return home they were delighted to chat to us, telling us that ISS had been their “saviours” One lady said that DR threatened to take her to court in order to get the management fees from her, despite the fact that she was going through a nasty divorce and simply couldn’t pay! The (alleged) vicar said that he had contacted DR and stated that he and his elderly wife could no longer use the timeshare points, and he said that DR just said “tough” they are yours till you die, and beyond! I feel that these two people were part of the scam, as were some others that they showed us letters from in their files. Having contacted DR since, they say this is not the case, they look on all cases favourably and if someone wants to relinquish their points they can. In any case after the age of 75 you can simply hand them back should you wish to do so. They have turned out not to be the rogues that ISS led us to believe they were, something we should have known since we have had a great service from them for over 15 years. We have in fact reinstated our points as we were really sad to have to part with them. DR have been nothing but fair and honest throughout all of this and were interested in this atrocious scam that we were part of.
      I should also add, that during our hard pressure sell that fateful afternoon, my husband, who had recently had an operation on his foot and was wearing a special shoe was in a great deal of pain, and to be honest we simply wanted the sales talk to end. At no point did they demonstrate how the Realistix Browser worked (it doesn’t!!) to be honest, we simply wanted to be out of that office!
      It spoiled our holiday as deep down we thought that we had been scammed! We were cross with ourselves for having been drawn in and falling for their lies, they need to be taken to task for this and in fact, we contacted the consumer people in Adeje and set up a meeting with them on our next visit to Tenerife.
      Now for the good part!!! We contacted our credit card company and with the help from Alberto, they have agreed that we have been scammed and are in the process of paying us back our £9,000. SO, DON’T GIVE UP

  3. Dave says:

    Hi Alberto,
    Like many other bloggers we have been caught by Realistix/ISS sl, but we were caught in Gran Canaria. The whole deception was very slick and when the offer was made to relinquish our timeshare AT A PROFIT it seemed too good an offer; which of course it was. By going back to the resort and going onto the internet we discovered that the whole set up was a xxxx. We also discovered Mindtimeshare and of course yourself. Acting on your advice letters have been sent to the Spanish Embassy in London, which involved the Spanish Tourist Office in London, which in turn contacted the Direccion General de Ordenacion y Promocion Turistica in Gran Canaria. They , in turn , have asked for full details of the xxxx and the paperwork to go with it. Hopefully something may result.
    We paid a deposit at the xxxx, fortunately on a credit card. Acting again on your advice we made a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974; it was rejected! Again on your advice we made another claim; again rejected! Acting on your advice we made a further claim but this time, with your input, we proposed to take the claim to the Financial Ombudsman Service should there not be a positive outcome. Within a week the claim was paid in full. Without your advice, prompting and persuasion we would have not got the money back.
    My advice to all who have been caught in this, or similar xxxx, is to listen to the advice that is readily available and act upon it. Certtainly without your backing we would have given up several months ago .

    Kind Regards and again many thanks for the help given

    Dave

  4. Peter says:

    we have just returned from tenerife and have been advised not to pay ISS any more money can anybody advise as to weather or nor this is legal and what i should do to try and recover the money i have lost.

  5. Eugene says:

    We have also fell in the trap of Realistix solutions,threatened with legal action. Please can you advise ,Very very worried,!

  6. Bob says:

    Everyone should read the OFT Debt collector guidelines you can find them on the OFT web site. These company’s regularly break the rules and you have every right to report them to Trading Standards. If they threaten to visits your home send a registered letter stating you do not give them permission to visit your home and request they only contact you by email or letter. I told Guardian Recovery if they ignore my request I would immediately call the police and show them a copy of the letter. If they use post cards,leave answer phone messages or threaten to visit your place of work without your permission you can report them to Trading Standards and I

    • bobr says:

      Con’t
      would encourage everyone to do this. Its easy phone Citizens Advice 08454 04 05 06 they will pass your complaint on to Trading Standards. Debt Collectors have to stay within the OFT guidelines and can lose their licence if they don’t. Every time they step out of line report them as I do. When they keep on sending me threatening letters I tell them the same thing every time, there is a ongoing dispute and will be paying nothing. Good luck to you all and don’t let these scare tactics wear you down.

      • Jennifer says:

        Hello Ann

        Yes, I would send your e mails to Trading Standards as the more we complain to them about Guardian the more likely it is they will intervene. I would encourage everyone to do the same.

        Good luck to you all

    • Jennifer says:

      Just to say that today I received an e mail from Consuelo Rodriguez to say that Realistix are being audited and he would let me know the date soon.Hope something comes of this.

      I regularly send my threats from Guardian to Trading Standards. I always get a reply but they can’t disclose if anything is being done.

      • bob says:

        It could be interesting I hope they declare the 1000s of Euros in cash they take when the credit card machine regularly breaks down.

      • ann says:

        Hi jennifer
        I have got all emails from them should i sent them to Trading standards
        regards ann

  7. Alison says:

    Received another letter today with another £2000 added to the balance! The debt collectors are threatening additional interest & debt recovery charges & to instigate a doorstep debt collection visit to our property or place of work.

  8. Alison says:

    We have had exactly the same letter & a follow up one since from the same debt collectors but have refused to pay.

  9. dennis says:

    DENNIS
    Hi ALBERTO LONG TIME NO HERE
    I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH E EEC AND TRADING STANDARDS ADEJE BECOUSE
    OUR FRENDS RELISTIX SOLUTIONS HAVE NOW GIVEN MY DEBT TO A DEBT COLLECTOR IN ENGLAND AND ARE ASKING AROUND £2000 MORE FOR THE PRIVALIGE THE COMPANS NAMEWe write further to your dispute regarding your debt of £5010.50 owed to Intelligent Software Solutions S.L..

    Intelligent Software Solutions S.L. has reviewed your dispute and their response is that your claimed dispute is without merit. Intelligent Software Solutions S.L. considers that they have given more than reasonable time for you to have presented a dispute prior to engaging the services of a debt recovery company and is not prepared to accept, after this length of time, that a valid dispute exists. Accordingly we have been instructed by our client to recommence actions against you.

    Settlement of your debt should be made by return, however, should you wish to make further representation or proposal of settlement then your written response to this should be sent within 7 days in order that we can continue to try and effect a resolution to this issue.

    Yours sincerely,

    Collections Department

    Guardian Recovery Limited

    Collections Department

    Guardian Recovery LTD

    4 Tustin Court, Port Way, Preston, PR2 2YQ

    Tel: 0871 423 6088

    Fax: 01772 333348

    Email: collections@guardianrecoveryservices.co.uk

    Website: http://www.guardianrecoveryservices.co.uk

    THERE IS A LADY IN THE TRADING STANDARDS ADEJE THAT HAS OPENED A FOLDER ON I S S AND TE ADRESS IS consueir@adeje.es .and the complete has been sent to DIRECCION GENERAL DE ORDENAION Y PROMOCION TURISTICA in GOBIERNO DE CANARIAS I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAY MAY BE SANCTIONED WHAT THIS MEANS I DO NOT KNOW.I HAVE NOW 3 DAYS TO REPLIY TO GUARDEAN RECOVERY BEFORE ACTION IS TAKEN AGAINST ME . PLEASE LET ANY BODY WHO HAS HAD ROBLEMS WITH RELISTIX TO GET IN TOUCH WITH CONSUELO LOMBARDERO RODRIGUEZ AT consueir@adeje.es tel number 0034922711484 (ext6410) Alberto can you give me any advise as I keep getting different advise which is confusing dennis

    • Rachel says:

      Dennis.
      I too am in the same position as you, I’ve had exactly the same wording from the debt company which received today this was an email sent to myself. I have also written to the EEC and the trading standards in Spain and also my bank in the hope of getting help and advise both have asked for documents etc to support my complaint. I spoke to the debt company today and they were trying to get me to pay £100.00 a month until this complaint is sorted which I have refused. I’m just unsure where to go now as they are asking for the money within 7 days.

  10. sussane says:

    got contacted by TCI Insolvency in Gibraltar said they where working on the files of JRG Equity Release S.L they said we can go the mediation route to get the money back from JRG Equity Release S.L. they said that when i paid my TAX on the money i was receiving this was illegal and i am due a refund. i sent them 1900GBP by bank transfer AM I GETTING SCAMMED?????

  11. One more interesting information for those who are trying the refund from Intelligent Software Solutions SL / Realistix Solutions:

    One of their Terminal Virtual Point of sale (tpvv), (the machine used to swipe the card through), is from the Spanish bank called Banca March.
    The company name that appears at the receive is TORVISCAS TRAVEL, with ID number 047629712.

    We strongly recommend to include this info in your credit card company’s complaint.

    Customer Services
    Mindtimeshare

  12. A consumer has just sent us a detail account of his encounter with Intelligent Software Solutions -ISS – and Realistix Solutions in CC Terranova- Adeje -Tenerife; last August 2013.
    The sales rep of Realistix lied shamelessly when affirmed that “this company was a part of the Wyndham Group”

    This is called “misrepresentation”.

    I am sure this has been the experience of many other consumers.
    Are you one of them?

    Customer Services
    Mindtimeshare

  13. Hamish says:

    I would like to see more of the “legal standings” referred to by this company to compare with the failed attempt by Petchey Holidays and Kings Ransom debt collectors (previously reported in these logs) to enforce their one-sided and corrupted interpretation of contract law. For a start, If there are no “cooling off” period terms then the contract is simply unenforceable under European law which includes Spain despite what Realistix say. There are further details in Unfair Contracts legislation which also appear to have been ignored. In sum, I do not believe that the so-called contract is legal in itself. Realistix are therefore lying.
    And I am positive about that Alberto!.
    I have been trying for some time to find any previous legal action by any of these incompetent, lying and cheating charlatans and the failed Petchey case is the only one I have found and that is now several years old. That is called precedent and can be quoted in any similar case at any point.
    It is particularly good for letters to bullying Debt Collectors when they start their misleading tactics. If you read the advice on The Office of Fair Trading site (The licensing authority for debt collectors) you will be well prepared for their attempts. Refuse all ‘phone calls and insist on everything in writing if this starts as written misleading statements (lies in other words) are better evidence for complaints.
    In my personal case with Club Class I refused to pay any more monies for a sub-standard, incompetent and lying service over 10 years ago and similar threats, the latest in 2012, have never been followed up.

  14. Tom says:

    We have cancelled all dealings with Realistix, thankfully we never got as far as purchasing the infamous “software”, but we were induced to purchase the “Free Holiday Options”, which ,of course, are not free at all. These tricksters will keep on and on at you until you give in ( they hope ! ) , but stand firm, ignore all phone calls ,e-mails etc and if it comes to it ,threaten them with police action, citing harassment, intimidation etc.
    We had a similar problem i.e. debt collectors turning up at all hours, even phoning our neighbours to get us to contact them, with M.B.N.A some years ago The police were very sympathetic and told us to contact them when the “heavies” appeared and resolved the problem.

  15. Phil says:

    To our ‘non-manipulated consumer’ I hope you remain resolute. This just seems like a replay of Club Class tactics to get you to sign for their dubious (very dubious) product. They all must have undertaken the same training module in their attempts to turn people upside down and empty their pockets!

  16. marrion says:

    Hello Alberto I’m writing this separately from the response to the Realistix Solutions matter to keep the two apart.

    Just ti say that Anthony Buckley did not ring as promised on the Monday bu did ring without explanation on the Friday. I was busy and told him to ring again on (this last) Monday (Oct 21. he did not. so i repsume I await till he surfaces again . I’ll keep you posted.

    Have a good weekend. I’m doing a spiel before a quiz night this evening but thal is local. Sunday I am reviewing an organ recital in the next town Rye.where there is a large theatre and audiences come from miles away for the monthly recitals.by ‘name’ performers.

    All good wishes Marrion

  17. marrion says:

    Good morning Alberto

    It would appear that this is yet one more example of the pressurising by itinerant sales-people who trap unwary tourists and lure them into them away from civilisation for the 4 hours plus of pressurised sales-talk. My own experience of this was lmited to extricating my 2 house-guests who had been trapped on their return from local shopping whilst I was away in our car. We were still tslking when the salesperson returned with his car so I followed. them. It was somewhere in the hills above Fuengirola, an area obviously being developed. They sat thro the sales talk for a couple of hours and then tried to leave. This was only with exrreme difficulty.. I recall they had to sign some formal-looking release papers of which they were refused a copy before the doors were unlocked. Sadly both these people are no longer with us but she was a Scottish thearical agent and he, her retired businessman husband so they were not ‘innocents abroad’ to have benn trapped by one of these salespeople. I remember the day in detail. It was late Nov/early Dec 2003 or 4.

    Marrion

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